After more than a decade together, Black Sabbath (who
were vocalist Ozzy Osbourne, guitarist Tony Iommi, bassist Geezer Butler
and drummer Bill Ward) seemed to be falling apart at the seams following
the release of their disastrous eighth studio effort 'Never Say Die'
in 1978. And sure enough, in as little as a year, Osbourne announced
his split from the group (which was actually for the second time) in
early 1979 to pursue a solo career.
Within a few short months, ex-Elf/Rainbow vocalist Ronnie
James Dio stepped in to fill the vacancy left behind by Osbourne, with
his debut with Black Sabbath eventually emerging in 1980 under the name
of 'Heaven And Hell'. Although having a completely different vocal/lyrical
approach to Osbourne, Dio's induction into Black Sabbath brought back
a creative spark that had been lacking on the last couple of albums
from the band (1976's 'Technical Ecstasy' and 1978's 'Never Say Die'),
with 'Heaven And Hell' once again earning the band critical acclaim.
Although the band lost Ward soon after touring began (for
both his drinking and a growing depression), Black Sabbath soon recruited
ex-Axis drummer Vinny Appice (whose brother is Carmine Appice), with
the remainder of the tour reintroducing a stronger and reborn Black
Sabbath for a whole new generation of fans.
Building up the template of their last album, Black Sabbath
returned with 'Mob Rules' in 1981, and the band's first official live
album (discounting 1980's 'Live At Last') 'Live Evil' in 1983. However,
by the time 'Live Evil' was released, Black Sabbath had parted ways
with Dio and Appice (who went on to form Dio), and started work with
ex-Deep Purple vocalist Ian Gillan on what was to be the 'Born Again'
album.
After a succession of strong released with vocalist Tony
Martin at the helm (1987's 'The Eternal Idol', 1989's 'Headless Cross'
and 1990's 'Tyr'), Black Sabbath once again reunited with Dio in 1991
(making it the second time that the classic 'Mob Rules' line-up got
together), with 'Dehumanizer' released in 1992. As expected, the reunion
was short lived (they managed to stay intact for just over a year),
and Black Sabbath once again returned to the studio with Martin.
In 1997, the original line-up of Black Sabbath reunited,
and have undertaken several US tours as part of the annual Ozzfest festival,
but with Osbourne taking time out to re-establish his own solo career
(Osbourne finally released his long awaited follow up to 2001's 'Down
To Earth' earlier this year with 'Black Rain'), Iommi again approached
Dio in 2006 about putting together a couple of tracks for a best of
album that focussed solely on the Dio years.
The project quickly took on a momentum of its own, with
Black Sabbath announcing the release of 'The Dio Years' (which features
a best of overview of Dio's time with the band, along with three new
tracks), to be followed by a world tour under the name of Heaven And
Hell, and featuring the classic line-up of Dio, Iommi, Butler and Appice.
With the announcement of the band's first Australian dates
in more than twenty-seven years, I caught up with a relaxed Ronnie James
Dio on a week off at home in Los Angeles following Heaven And Hell's
European tour to talk about Black Sabbath's latest best of 'The Dio
Years', Heaven And Hell's upcoming live CD/DVD and the confusion over
just why Black Sabbath are no longer called Black Sabbath!
"Quite simply, Iommi owns the name Black Sabbath.
So right away, let's quash the speculation and rumours that Sharon Osbourne's
there with an axe over somebody's head. That's not the case at all.
I think that's what everybody seems to think, but it's simply not true.
I think it's something that Iommi wanted to do, just because of what
Black Sabbath have been through. For the last ten years, Black Sabbath
have been playing 'Iron Man', 'Paranoid', 'Black Sabbath' etc, etc,
etc. So I think Tony wanted to make a separation between that band and
this band. Had he not done that, it would be called Black Sabbath -
The Dio Years. That is offensive to me. It's either going to be Black
Sabbath or not Black Sabbath. It can't be a bit of both. He wanted to
call it Heaven And Hell, and that was fine by me. I mean let's face
it; everyone is going to call us Black Sabbath anyway right? And really,
what difference does it make? It's something that I think Iommi felt
very strongly about, and that was OK by me. As I said before, in the
end they're going to call us Black Sabbath anyway. I mean that's who
we are."
After countless Black Sabbath compilations that begin
and end with the Osbourne era, 'The Dio Years' is a long overdue sixteen-track
compilation that actually manages to draw together the best of the four
albums that Dio fronted with Black Sabbath.
"The record company actually put the track listing
together. The band had a discussion, and we all agreed to what they
put forward. But in retrospect, I think we all wished that 'The Sign
Of The Southern Cross' (from 1991's 'Mob Rules') was actually on there
now. It was a very quick process, and there wasn't a real lot of discussion
amongst ourselves as to what we did or didn't want on there, so that's
why 'Sign Of The Southern Cross' wasn't on there. But overall, we're
all pleased with the selections on the album."
Apart from the classics, 'The Dio Years' also boasts three
new tracks (the mid-paced 'The Devil Cried', the slower doom like 'Shadow
Of The Wind' and the fast paced 'Ear In The Wall'), which only goes
to show that even though it's been fifteen years since they last wrote
music together, the magic is still very much there.
"Recording the new songs was a very quick process.
Iommi and I got together at his home studio (Tone Hall), and it was
pretty much a return of that instant chemistry we've always had. We
quickly slipped back into where we were all the other times before when
we were working with one another. We've always written well together,
and with no preconceived ideas brought into the studio in advance, we
soon came up with three new songs. Initially, I played bass and sang,
Iommi played his guitar and we had a drum machine, and away we went.
When we had the songs written, we had Butler and Appice come in and
record their parts. Initially, the record company (Rhino Entertainment)
asked us for two new songs, but we ended up giving them three instead.
It didn't take much to talk them into accepting the other new track!
(Laughs) We stopped writing after we had the three songs, because at
that point, there were no thoughts in our minds that anything would
happen with this collaboration beyond providing some new songs for the
album. But it goes to show you how quickly we can work together. For
the last ten years, with the band comprising of Osbourne, Iommi, Butler
and Ward, have only written a couple of songs in all that time. For
us though, it was really instant. It was just the way that it was all
those times before. And I think those tracks have made this album that
something a little more special, rather than just a revamped retrospective
compilation with a couple of unreleased tracks from a live show. I don't
think something like that gives you, or the fans for that matter, any
real satisfaction. I think that having three tracks from a band like
this is pretty phenomenal, especially being as strong as they are."
Following the release of 'The Dio Years' album, the band
(Heaven And Hell) committed themselves to a world tour (which began
in March), which will take up all of 2007.
"The tour has been a huge success. We're probably
as surprised as much as anyone else is as to just how successful this
tour has been from the start, especially given that when this whole
thing started, we were still known primarily as Heaven And Hell. There
have been great attendances everywhere we've been so far, and there
are a lot of people that want to see this line-up of the band play.
It's been really surprising to us, although we're quite used to it now.
That's becoming a problem! (Laughs) We'll soon be asking why there aren't
as many people at tonight's show as there was the night before. But
seriously, it's been really phenomenal. This tour has been really important
to all of us, and not just as recognition of my contribution to the
band. I didn't feel that sort of recognition was necessary for me on
a personal level. What was necessary however was for the band to play
and secure its own past legacy. So this tour is more about recognition
for the band, rather than just me. I'm only as good as the people I
play with. We're out there saying 'This is who we are!' regardless of
whether people view us as Black Sabbath, Heaven And Hell or whatever
the hell they're going to call us these days. This is what we are, and
I don't see any problem with that. But things have been great so far,
and again, we're more surprised than anyone."
What's even more surprising is that given the bands past
history, there's been little drama behind scenes within the band up
until now.
"We've never ever had a problem with each other personally.
Not ever. This is my third time in the band, so I would never have joined
back for a third time if I harboured those thoughts in my mind. We've
always enjoyed being around each other, and I'm including Appice at
this point too. Ward only played on one album ('Heaven And Hell'), and
as great as a person he was, and as brilliant as he played on that album,
Appice played on all the rest of our albums together, including the
three news songs and all the touring the band undertook following those
albums. Ward stopped touring early on into the 'Heaven And Hell' tour.
Again, Appice is the perfect person to play in this band. The people
within this band simply astound me, both on a professional level and
on a personal level. We've always been friends, and this time is no
different."
Apart from the release of 'The Dio Years', the band is
also set to release a new double live album/DVD titled 'Live At Radio
City Music Hall' next month.
"That particular show sold out in twenty minutes!
We just couldn't believe it. And that's pretty much been the case everywhere.
It's been totally unbelievable. I haven't seen the entire show yet,
because we've been busy on the road since March. While we've been out
there, we've been trying to put this package together. We would get
a mix in 5.1 surround sound for the DVD, and trying to listen to that
in a hotel room or in a studio where someone didn't know what the hell
they were doing, and it just ended up being impossible to do. So the
whole thing had to wait until we came off the road, and that's why there's
a slight delay. At least that's if we wanted to listen and do this thing
properly, and we really wanted it to be right. It's just been really,
really difficult to deal with that. But now that we've dealt with it,
it sounds really, really great. It was recorded at Radio City Music
Hall in New York, which is an absolutely classic venue to play at. The
audience was great, and the show was a good one, so it sounds really,
really good. Unfortunately, it was only our eleventh show. We all wish
that it could have been our twenty-fifth show, because by then we had
done quite a few different things, but so far, the footage I've seen
looks great. We're all very happy with it. And believe me, if one of
us weren't happy with it, that would have been the end of it."
As part of their world tour, Heaven And Hell are making
their long overdue third visit to Australian shores, with their last
visit with Dio out front as far back as November 1980.
"I haven't been to Australia in almost twenty years.
In fact, the last time I was down there was with Dio in 1996, on the
'Sacred Heart' tour. Australia's always been a place that I loved, because
the audiences were always great. I never could understand why bands
didn't go down there all the time if they could. I really don't know
what to expect when I get down there to tell you the truth, but I expect
it to be a very different place to how I remembered it. I remember the
zoo up north in Surfers Paradise. I'm sure that's changed as well. I'm
sure it's a huge place now. I'm sure the koalas are as big as mountain
lions now too! (Laughs) What I always remembered was how Australia was
half American and half English. I don't mean that in a bad way, because
Australians will always be Australian. What I mean is that for people
who travel to a distant country, especially if you're English or American,
you expect the culture to be either one or the other. In Australia,
you get both those things all at the same time. So for people like me,
it's just absolutely wonderful. Australia in general, both as a country
and its people, are amazing. I can't wait to get down there."
As for what fans can expect from the show, Dio is adamant
that Heaven And Hell's performance is not one to be missed for a number
of reasons.
"If you're a Black Sabbath fan, then you have to
come see this band. We'll be playing Black Sabbath's Dio selections,
as we like to call them. The set list will be made up of songs from
all the albums that we've done together, and one of the new tracks from
the new album. We'll probably do 'The Devil Cried'. But apart from the
songs, there's the band. I mean there's myself, who had a career before
Black Sabbath, and then another after Black Sabbath. The career I've
enjoyed has been an incredibly productive and rewarding one, especially
with the way that 'Holy Diver' (1983) and 'The Last In Line' (1984)
helped me establish myself outside of Black Sabbath. So you get such
a double barrel's worth of experience there alone. And then you have
Iommi and Butler playing together, who are the legends of the band,
and the very people that created that incredible sound. And finally
you have Appice, who is such a brilliant drummer. He's so perfect for
this band, and with the way this band writes music. This band is just
absolutely phenomenal. It's just the way it's supposed to be. I don't
know how it happened, but it did. The other reason why people should
check out the shows is because I don't think it's going to be something
that you're going to see again! (Laughs) Especially given that it's
currently as good as it is. I think that whoever comes to see this show
will walk away saying, 'Yeah! That's right. That's what I thought. That's
how good they were, and that's how good they are!' People will say,
'What a great band, and what a brilliant show!' I think for that reason,
and that reason alone, people show come and see the show. I think if
you miss this one, you're a fool! (Laughs)"
After finishing up their dates in Australia, Heaven And
Hell will finish out the remainder of the year with another US and a
UK tour, with the intention of wrapping up the band early in the New
Year.
"This whole Heaven And Hell thing was going to finish
in December, but because there's been a couple of lucrative gigs offered
to us, there's some dates being added in December I believe. This thing
may even extend into February, but we'll have to wait and see what happens.
While the lucrative money offers makes a huge difference, our reasoning
behind playing some extra shows is because we've been offered to play
in places that I have never been before, such as India and Dubai. It
just sounds really exotic to me. Those are placed that I have never
been to before. I don't think the other guys have been there either.
The whole tour was going to finish in December, and we just decided
that if something comes up that we wanted to do, we'd do it, and then
draw the line around February. Both India and Dubai are very alluring
and exotic locations and I think it will be a great experience for us
to enjoy together, and a great way to finish things up for us."
I would like to thank Ronnie James Dio for his generous
time and Jasmine Kirkwood at RCP (Rock Circuit Promotions) for making
the interview possible.
For more information on Black Sabbath, check out - http://www.black-sabbath.com
© Justin Donnelly - justindonnelly@ozemail.com.au
