MICK
WALL INTERVIEW
In his thirty years
as a journalist, Mick Wall has lived the life that many budding music journalists
can only dream about.
Through his work with magazines such
as Kerrang! (1983 - 1991), Metal Hammer (1992 - 1993), RAW (1993 - 1995), Classic
Rock (1998 - 2004) and Mojo (2004 - 2006), Wall has travelled all over the world,
conducted interviews with some of the biggest names to grace the hard rock/metal
scene, and earned a reputation as one of one of the U.K.'s premier music journalists.
Although
still contributing to a variety of magazines across the globe on a part time basis,
and hosting a couple of radio shows in his spare time, most of Wall's time these
days is spent writing books, with his most successful and critically acclaimed
effort being 'When Giants Walk The Earth: A Biography Of Led Zeppelin', which
emerged in 2008.
Although it's hardly what you would call an
official follow-up to his Led Zeppelin tome, Wall has managed to find the time
to compile a new book in the form of 'Appetite For Destruction: Legendary Encounters
With Mick Wall'. As the title would suggest, the book is a collection of interviews
conducted by Wall from 1985 through to 1995 with some of the biggest names in
the hard rock/metal scene.
With 'Appetite For Destruction:
Legendary Encounters With Mick Wall' finally hitting the shelves, I decided to
catch up with Wall in Oxfordshire (U.K.) to find out what it was like being a
journalist through what is undoubtedly hard rock/metal's classic era (The late
'80's/early '90's), working alongside his co-conspirator/friend Ross Halfin and
just where the idea for such a book came from.
"'Appetite
For Destruction' is essentially an expanded version of my book 'Star Trippin':
The Best Of Mick Wall 1985-91', which came out in 2006 in celebration of Kerrang!'s
twenty-fifth anniversary. 'Star Trippin'' was a self published effort, low key
release with a very modest print run. You could only buy it via my website, and
each copy was signed by me. It was never meant to be anything other than a memento
really for some people that enjoyed those stories the first time around. We only
did a few hundred copies, and they all went. I thought there would be hundreds
of these things sitting in a garage somewhere in years to come. But lo and behold,
they all went. And people bought them from all over the world. I really didn't
expect that there would be so many people interested in the book. But the idea
to re-release the book came about when my editor asked if he could get a copy.
As it so happens, I only had two copies left. One thing led to another, and eventually,
'Star Trippin'' became a kind of springboard to a more expanded version, which
is now called 'Appetite For Destruction'. Originally, 'Star Trippin'' had sixteen
stories, along with introductions to all the stories. This new version now has
thirty-one stories, and I've modified and improved some of the introductions that
had originally appeared in 'Star Trippin'' to bring them up to date. I think it
made them slightly better in my view, because I realise now that I'm writing for
a much wider audience, especially given the unexpected success of 'Star Trippin''.
And the codas for all of the stories are all brand new as well. There were no
codas in 'Star Trippin''. Unlike 'Star Trippin'', 'Appetite For Destruction' is
now something that everybody can get a hold of. I think this version is edited
better, presented in a much more appealing package and it's more than twice as
long. I'm very happy with how it's turned out."
While
the stories themselves are timeless, and the introductions provide a nice build
up for the story that ensues, it's actually the codas where Wall indulges in some
retrospective and personal insight based on the stories. But while some of the
codas reflect on the subject matter with words of warmth and good will, there
are others when Wall isn't afraid to speak his mind.
"These
days, in complete contract to the time when those stories were written, I almost
care nothing about what people might think of what I have to say. Obviously there
are exceptions. There are certain people that I have a deep regard for, and therefore
I don't want to insult them or offend them in any way. But by and large, I just
feel that if you're honest and say what you sincerely feel, without necessarily
coming over too heavy about the whole thing, you should be allowed to express
your own opinion. In those days though, it was a completely different ball game.
Almost every artist that is in that book is someone that I would have interviewed
at least seven, eight, nine or maybe ten times, whether it is for radio, television,
or perhaps in preparation for future books. The key in those days was always access.
I would interview Iron Maiden three times a year, and the only way you keep getting
welcomed back was because they felt comfortable with you. They felt they could
trust you. In other words, you weren't going to go away and write the kind of
story that they would absolutely hate. And again, there are always exceptions.
But by and large in those days, I tried very hard to make it seem that I didn't
care. But really I did care, because I wanted to go back and do more stories with
the same people later. At the time, there was no internet or satellite television
(At least in the U.K.), and Kerrang! was the only game in town for groups like
Metallica, Iron Maiden, Guns N Roses and Bon Jovi. So they were always pleased
to see you as well. There was a great sort of camaraderie, a kind of 'us against
the world' thing. It was simply more fun to be on the team, than not. I didn't
want to be that guy from the NME that thinks everyone is a fucking idiot, and
all the music sucks. I loved that whole world, because they were such personalities,
and often they had such great stories to tell. And of course, you travelled in
style. It was everything I wanted rock 'n' roll to be as a kid. But I kind of
got sick of that in the end, especially around the turn of '90's. These days,
I'm in a different place, and I try hard not to give two hoots what anyone thinks,
and really try the best I can to say what I really mean."
Having
conducted so many interviews throughout the years meant that selecting stories
for the new and improved 'Appetite For Destruction' was always going to be a hard
choice. But despite the challenge, Wall's selection criteria for the book were
really quite simple.
"Originally with 'Star Trippin'',
I simply decided to select one story each from the biggest artists. You have to
remember that it was done very much as a side project. At the time that we did
it, I really didn't put a lot of thought into it. It was a very small thing, put
together by a very small amount of people. It wasn't like I had any intention
of making any money from it. Consequently, we actually lost money on the book.
But originally, my only thought was, 'Hey, let's put in one Black Sabbath, one
Deep Purple, one Guns N' Roses and one Metallica story. And that's what I did.
I just added what I hoped would be some of the more interesting stories to others
out there. When it came to adding stories to 'Appetite For Destruction', there
were quite a number of stories that I really wanted to add in there. The problem
was that there were some that I simply couldn't. The simple reason for that is
that I don't have the original manuscripts. These things were written on typewriters.
And in those days, we had absolutely no idea that in twenty years there would
be any interest or value in them at all. I mean I would bash this stuff out, hand
it in to the editor and off it would go. I wouldn't even make a copy of it for
myself. So I had to literally try scanning the stories in from the original magazines.
Now the thing about Kerrang! is that through most of the '80's, and again, before
computers, a lot of it was hand designed. You know, with tracing paper and projectors.
And they used to use a lot of background tones. You couldn't read the damn thing,
let alone scan it. There's a great interview I did with Rob Halford of Judas Priest
which I so wanted in this book. But when I found the original, the opening double
page spread - I couldn't believe my eyes. It was unbelievable. It was yellow words,
on a pink background! (Laughs) I stood there in my office, with the thing by the
window, and I could barely read the thing. I thought, 'To hell with this'. You
couldn't scan it that's for sure. And then I thought about hand typing the thing
in, because I really wanted this story. There were a few stories like that, where
you would get a few pages that were scannable or readable, but then you would
come across some that would have something like a beach scene, which was all sea
and sand, clouds and people in colourful outfits, and you can't read the bloody
things. So there were plenty that I couldn't use for that reason. Funnily enough,
some of the best things I wrote weren't always on the most famous people. Some
of the best interviews I did were on groups that weren't really first division
in terms of fame. Actually, we ended up doing some really great stuff, stuff on
groups like Thunder, The Quireboys and Dogs D'Amour. Some of my favourite works
of those days went into those stories. Take for instance the 'Rock In Rio' story
in 'Appetite For Destruction'. There was actually a 'Rock In Rio II' story that
was set some six years later. That for me is as easily as interesting and probably
more interesting that the original feature. But you can not get that damn thing
down onto a scanner or a computer. You would literally have to sit there and type
it all in. And it was a three part story. The thing is like ten thousand words.
And the thing is that I'm not really a typist. If I was a proper typist, I could
sit there and have it done in no time. I've honestly had a go at some of these
things, but they were simply beyond me. So the criteria was - can I scan it? Is
it any good? What the hell was I thinking when I wrote it? And from those, I tried
to pick the best of these stories."
All the stories have
their own stories themselves, but upon reading the Poison story, it's mind blowing
to find that Wall had managed to salvage a complete story (And a compelling one
at that, despite the fact that it all about being locked away in an empty room
by the band) out of what could only be described as an interviewer's worst nightmare.
"That
was a gift from the gods really. You write endless stories about how great a band
are, and how great it was and all the interesting things that happened, but the
one everyone wants to hear about is the one you said was a total nightmare and
where everything that could have gone wrong, really does go wrong. It was just
this bizarre situation. Actually, joining the dots now, I can see how something
like that happens. It just drove Ross (Halfin) and me nuts to be stuck in this
room for so many hours, but we absolutely let them have it. When I got to the
typewriter, the story really wrote itself. I warned them that I was going to do
it, and I told them about how pissed off I was, and how I was 'Going to make them
pay!' But what's weird now all these years later is how people refer to that story,
and the description of the piece as being locked in a cupboard. It's turned into
this thing where I was apparently locked in a cupboard. And we weren't. It was
a fairly large room, just an empty one. And yes, the door was locked. But I now
know of course that nothing makes a better story than when things go completely
and utterly wrong."
One of the major characters throughout
'Appetite For Destruction' is Wall's travelling partner, friend and renown photographer
Ross Halfin. While Halfin's reputation as a photographer is well known, those
who know Halfin also know he's not a man to be messed with either. And as the
Poison piece clearly illustrates, Halfin is not one to stand by and be quiet when
things start to go pear shaped.
"He's really nice, but
he still scares the hell out of me to this day! (Laughs) He has a website actually,
and if you go to it, you can really get an idea of what it's like to work with
him. I've known Halfin for over thirty years, and he really is like a family member
to me. And what doesn't get said enough about Ross is that he's a great friend,
and a true friend when things are not really happening for you. There was a time
for me in the '90's when the phone really went dead. I mean these days, the phone
is permanently dead, because everything is done by e-mail. But I mean in those
days, everything was done via the phone, and it just went dead. He hung on in
there through thick and thin, and in that same way, he was always there for me
at a time when everyone else had abandoned ship. And it's not just me, there are
other people he had done that for. Not just for months, but sometimes for years
at a time. He's incredibly loyal. Now all that said, he's also incredibly hard
work sometimes. He's very, very hard to deal with, and there have been many bands
that hate his guts, and refuse to work with him anymore. But the overriding thing
is his honesty. As far as he's concerned, the music business is full of fakers
and ass-suckers, and he's not one of them. And he's right. He's absolutely right.
We all bullshit and lie to each other to get what we want, and he just won't.
He's never played the game, and his saving grace is that he's honest, and he takes
amazing pictures. And of course, he's also very funny. So travelling with him
was always an experience. He would always burst into the dressing room. He would
never stand on ceremony. He was utterly fearless. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't
have got half the stories I did. He would quite literally walk in there and say,
'Come on you. Up against the wall. I'm going to take your picture. Mick's here.
You'll like him, he takes a lot of drugs like you!' He would just go in there
and sort them out. I would really play the nice one. So it worked really well
for the time that we worked together. There would other times where the band would
be lining up for his photo, and without hesitation, he would turn to one of the
members and say things like, 'Hey! Do you think you could try any harder at looking
so bored?' They just weren't used to being spoken to like that. And then there
was the time I remember him saying to this one guy in a band, 'You're a bit N.L.W.W.
aren't you?' The guys was like, 'N.L.W.W.?' And Ross said, 'Yeah. No luck with
women!' The guy was just floored. There was another time when we were sitting
by the pool at the Sunset Marque in L.A. This was around 1985, and Charlie Sexton
had just released his debut album (1985's 'Pictures For Pleasure'). Anyway, Sexton,
who had the quiff and the leathers image at the time, sat by the pool. We had
been trying to attract the attention of the waiters for a drink, for some time,
but when Sexton walked in all the waiters immediately moved towards him like a
magnet. Now it wasn't like they didn't know who we were. Halfin virtually has
a wing of the hotel named after him. Anyway, Halfin immediately gets pissed off
and yells, 'Oi! Never mind Johnny Vomit! Get me a fucking beer!' To give Ross
credit, it was a spot on comment. But as the same time, it was also somewhat embarrassing!
Another time I remember there was a guy from MTV all dressed up in the gear, and
when he walked by, Ross said, 'Oi! What time you onstage then?' The only thing
is that it was eleven in the morning, and he wasn't in a band at all - only in
the gear. It was everything you were thinking, and something he had no problem
saying out loud. He just had that wonderful way of absolutely putting everyone
in their place. It was just so different to how everyone conducted business. You
either loved him, or hated him. And for me, it was very much a case of loving
him. Well, hated him and loved him at the same time."
But
despite the tough exterior, Wall says that inside, Halfin is quite a different
person.
"Here's the thing - he's such a sensitive person,
and he gets really hurt when people decide that they no longer want to work with
him. He especially gets upset when they would prefer some smarmy guy to come in
and suck up to the artists that they're supposed to work with. But these days,
you tend to see a lot of bands that want to be waited on more and more. That's
the reason why they became rock stars in the first place. And they're not prepared
to deal with Satan as he walks through the door telling them what a bunch of wankers
they really are. I'll give you another good example. We were working with The
Black Crowes, and this was just before they got really, really big. The Black
Crowes were wise enough to see Halfin was a great photographer, and that he wasn't
there to kiss ass. They saw Halfin as very valuable and refreshing, because they
ended up working with him for years. But there came a moment where they could
have clearly decided never to work with him again. It was back when they were
just starting to make a name for themselves, and they were just about to come
to London for their first shows. And in order to understand this story, you have
to understand that Ross loves The Who. They're the one group he'll make exceptions
for. There's never been a greater group in the universe than The Who. The Beatles
were a bunch of talent-less nobody's, but The Who are gods. I can only assume
that The Black Crowes went back and thought about this, and figured it out for
themselves. But at the time, they were completely unaware of Halfin's love of
The Who. Anyway, it was a lovely day, and everyone was having a great time shooting
photos and hanging around San Francisco. And at one point, (Vocalist) Chris Robinson
turns around to Ross and asks, 'Hey Ross, are you coming to our show in London'.
And Ross turns around and bluntly says, 'Leave it out. It's not like you're The
Who is it!' There was quite literally a moment of silence, but they eventually
burst out laughing. It was fantastic. But he does the whole London thing, regardless
of whether they get it or not. And they knew he meant it as well. But at the same
time, it was such a contrast to how everybody was doing things. I think the two
of us were a very good team, because sometimes it wouldn't go down well, and I
was the one smoothing things over. But at the time, he was the great photographer,
and I was the one doing the great cover stories. So Kerrang! always had the consolation
that despite being the biggest pain in their ass, at the end of it all, we would
always deliver."
Most would agree that the late '80's/early
'90's was a great era for hard rock and metal in terms of music. And according
to Wall, a great time for being a journalist as well, especially when compared
to how magazines are managed in today's musical climate.
"Going
through the pages of Kerrang!, there were very occasional features that I had
absolutely no recollection of writing, of who the artist was and why I did it
in the first place. One example that comes to mind is Femme Fatale. I found an
interview I did with their singer (Lorraine Lewis) around 1988. And I'm thinking,
'Who the fuck is Femme Fatale? When did I ever interview them?' And it eventually
came back to me. I think I did it one day during my lunchbreak in order to get
the record company to pay for a couple more nights at the hotel I was staying
at. Or something like that anyway. So there was a bit of that, but mainly it was
a fantastic time. I realised while I was doing it that it was a fantastic time.
And I did sometimes think to myself, 'When is it going to end? This can't go on
forever surely?' That's because I found it too extraordinary. Kerrang! was such
an odd deal in those days. It was never expected to do well, so it had its own
little room on the floor away from all the other magazines. These days, having
been an editor at Classic Rock, its all marketing, strategies, mission statements
and web branding. It's fucking endless all the bullshit you have to do these days.
Plus every front cover you have has to be justified with group editors and publishers.
In those days, we just used to put a band on the cover if we thought the album
was good. Most of the groups were bands that no one had ever heard of before.
We had groups like Chainsaw Massacre on the cover. Never to be heard of again.
Rouge Male. Never to be heard of again. Crimson Glory. They were on the cover
once. They used to wear silver masks. We just put them on the cover, and quite
often, they would never be heard of again. And then we would put acts like Guns
N' Roses on the cover, long before anyone had ever heard of them. The very first
time anyone had ever heard of Metallica was because we put them on the cover of
Kerrang!. If we thought they were great, we would put them on the cover of Kerrang!,
and there was nobody there to tell you not to do it, or asking why, or who our
target audience was. We thought it was just metal, and that's all there was to
it. So there were aspects to it all that we didn't know about. And we certainly
didn't realise just how lucky we were. But by and large, we knew it was a really
exceptional situation, and absolutely took full advantage of it. We were constantly
getting upgrades on planes, travelling around in limos and forever staying in
great hotels. And Halfin and I got the best of it. We travelled all around the
world many, many times. And in the last couple of years, we had it down to a fine
art where we really didn't have to leave Los Angeles. It was all concentrated
in that place, because that was our favourite place to be. We would go there for
one story that was supposed to keep us there for three days, and end up spending
six weeks. Record company's would fork out the money, because we were Halfin and
Wall from Kerrang!, and anything we did was going to go on the cover. And going
on the cover would guarantee a certain measure of sales on an album, or a certain
number of tickets sold at their concerts. Not to mention that there was no other
outlet for these bands in Britain at the time. It was great. We could do what
we like. We were quite literally their guests. I mean Iron Maiden's manager used
to live in actor James Cagney's old house, and we would be forever hanging out
there doing laps in the pool, and popping down to the English pub The Cat And
Fiddle. Of course, it wasn't remotely English, because you would have these gorgeous
girls bringing beers over on trays in this beautiful and wonderful climate of
ninety-five degree heat! (Laughs) And of course, there were a load of drugs at
the time. It was all just one long, unbelievable party. And because it wasn't
the NME, and it wasn't The Smiths or The Cure, we were allowed to be the opposite
of what you could possibly imagine. No one expected anything different. Of course
they're obnoxious lunatics, but they're with Iron Maiden, or he's with Ozzy Osbourne.
But what they didn't realised is that often we were playing chess, or reading
books, or doing something that wasn't what we were writing about. The moment was
funny, and the key was laughs. The question was how much would you laugh, how
hard will you laugh, and how seriously will you not take this at the end of the
day."
Overall, 'Appetite For Destruction' is a great read,
full of great stories from an era the likes of which we may never see again. But
while the book is entertaining and enthralling from start to finish, I had to
ask what Wall hopes the reader may get out of the book?
"I
don't think there is anything specific, because the whole thing is still a surprise
to me that it's even made it to a book. The only rule I had compiling this is
that I wouldn't fall prey to the temptation to try and improve those stories.
You have to remember they're twenty to twenty-five years old now, and there's
barely a line that I read now that I couldn't think that I could do better now.
But I resisted that entirely. What you get is actually what came out in the magazine
at the time. Because of that, a lot of it makes me cringe. I tell you what, if
you go to the back of the book, skip to the very last story and go straight to
the question and answer story I do with Duff McKagan and Slash of Guns N' Roses.
It occupies the last half a dozen pages of the book. It's a previously unpublished
interview I did for a radio station in London, which they refused to broadcast
because they thought it was too surreal. What that means is that it was too filthy
really. It was done around the height of all this around new years day in 1994
in L.A. I think that, more than anything else in the book gives you a real glimpse
of what we were up to in those days. But in terms of what I want people to get
out of it, I really didn't start out with that idea. 'Star Trippin'' was a very
modest little gift, if anybody should be interested for those few hundred lunatics
that may be out there from back in those days when Kerrang! was celebrating its
silver jubilee. Four years on, it's this much bigger book that people can buy,
and I feel very shy, but I wouldn't dream of telling you what to get out of it.
I only hope it's entertaining, fun, and that they get a few laughs out of it really."
As
for the future, well Wall ensures me that he's well and truly underway, and towards
completion of his next novel, with the subject being Metallica.
"That's
what I'm working on right now. This is the real proper follow up to the Led Zeppelin
book 'When Giants Walked The Earth'. I should be nearly finished, but of course
I'm not. I'm a little behind actually. In the same way that I did the Led Zeppelin
book, I want to try and tell it the best way that I can, because I truly don't
think that the story of Metallica has ever been told before, or at least not properly.
I knew those guys very well in the early days, and right up to when they hit the
big time. I mean Lars used to call me when I was in London to see if he could
crash at my flat. That was in the very early days of course. He was still doing
that right up until he was telling me that he was considering have an elevator
built to get people up the side of the mountain where he lives to the front door
of his new house. That was somewhere in the '90's. In recent times, I've reconnected
with them and done quite a few interviews with them. I think their story is an
extraordinary one. It has lots of ups and downs, and you have to have those. No
story is ever complete when you talk solely about the ups. It must speak of the
downs as well. So I'm really stuck into it at the moment. I'm quite literally
dreaming about the bloody thing, and I'm terrified that I'm not going to get it
finished in time. But that situation's normal, and that's' always the case. The
book should be released in October 2010. At the moment, we're discussing ideas
what to call the book. I did have a title, but I've recently changed my mind.
I had a meeting this afternoon. I went into the meeting thinking that I had an
incredible title, only to come out of the meeting thing that I have an incredibly
terrible title! (Laughs) Now we have to come up with something startlingly fresh
and new! But I have no idea what that is at the moment. It's only when I finish
the darn thing that phrase will come to me. It was supposed to be delivered in
April. But I can only really hope to finish the thing by June. These things take
so bloody long. I love doing them, but I'm so terrible. I always leave things
until the last minute to get my ass into gear and write the thing. I must say
though, it's a really interesting story. I've written about Metallica many times,
and I know what sort of book I want to do. But out of research, and talking to
people and sifting through the facts, you suddenly realise you know nothing. You
think you knew it all, but you knew nothing! And that's what makes it exciting
for me, but also daunting. There's no kind of easy bit, or any parts where you
can simply skip through with relative ease. I know fuck all about it! I really
had to start from scratch, and find out what that story is. And that's the best
part of it, and the part that drives you nuts because it takes you so long. I
hope that makes sense, because speaking to a guy that writes books is a bit like
talking to a lunatic that doesn't make any sense! (Laughs)"
I
would like to thank Mick Wall for his generous time and Brendan Fredericks at
Hachette Australia for making the interview possible.
For
more information on Mick Wall, check out - http://www.mickwall.com/home.htm
©
Justin Donnelly - justindonnelly@ozemail.com.au
