UNTIL
THE LIGHT TAKES US INTERVIEW
The story
behind the rise and eventual fall of the Norwegian black metal scene from the
early '90's is a fascinating one, and one that's been recounted many times (Most
notably and controversial being Michael Moynihan and Didrik Søderlind's
'Lords Of Chaos: The Bloody Rise Of The Satanic Metal Underground' literary effort
from 1998).
In film form, the story has also been told in various
ways, including films such as 'Satan Rides The Media' (1998), 'True Norwegian
Black Metal' (2007), 'Black Metal: A Documentary' (2007) and 'Murder Music: A
History of Black Metal' (2007), all of which attempt to lift the shroud of mystery
surrounding the early black metal underground and allow those involved to discuss
the ideology behind the cult movement. While attempts have been made to present
the black metal scene with some level of insight and intelligence, some have failed
to provide anything more than cheap sensationalism, leaving many to feel that
the real story has yet to be told.
Another to add to the long
list of films attempting to unveil the mystery surrounding the Norwegian black
metal scene is 'Until The Light Takes Us', which is a feature full-length film
put together by first time directors Aaron Aites and Audrey Ewell.
Having
toured across the globe in theatrical form throughout 2009, 'Until The Light Takes
Us' has finally made its way onto D.V.D., with its Australian release being picked
up by Shock Entertainment in late 2010.
In the lead up to its
release, I spoke with both Aaron Aites and Audrey Ewell in Brooklyn (New York,
U.S.) to talk about the making of the film, what their motivation was for bringing
the story to the big screen and how much of a challenge it was to present the
story in a way that hadn't been achieved before now.
The movie
has been around for some time, having been playing in theatres since its initial
release in December 2009. With its imminent release on D.V.D., I'm curious as
to whether or not you're surprised by how long the film has managed to retain
such an interest for so long?
Audrey Ewell - No. Not really.
I know this is going to sound completely arrogant, but I knew that this was going
to be the sort of film that would be a bit of a slow burner. So I knew that it
was going to stick around for some time. We had the film shown theatrically in
the U.K. way back in March (2010), and we just recently heard back from the press
that people are still talking about it over there. So that's a good thing, and
I can only hope that it continues.
Can you tell me how long
it took you guys to put together 'Until The Light Takes Us'?
Aaron
Aites - Oh, about twenty-five years! We've been working on it longer than the
movement has even existed. Or at least it feels that way! (Laughs)
Audrey
Ewell - We shot for about two years, and before that we did a lot of research,
and that in itself took about a year. So it was about three years all up. When
we finished up filming and made our way back from Norway, we then had to move
cities, so we went from San Francisco to New York. From there, we put together
our editing team, found a facility and then set about finding some funding to
help finish the film. So all up, that took us another year to achieve. Once that
was all sorted out, it took us another couple of years to edit the film together.
We came back from Norway with three hundred and fifty hours of footage, so just
the process of logging and digitalizing that footage took us six months alone.
So it was a very, very long process.
I have read some rather
mixed reviews, with a cross selection of those who really get something out of
it, and those who simply don't warm to it one bit. What sort of reactions have
you been getting for 'Until The Light Takes Us'?
Aaron Aites
- Well yeah, it's been a bit like that. People seem to either love it or hate
it. Personally, I don't read the reviews! (Laughs) Not for any cool reason, but
mostly because I hate reading bad reviews for it. It's a strong reaction, because
people either love it or hate it. I don't mind that one bit, but the reviews are
something that I just ignore.
The story behind the rise and
fall of the Norwegian black metal scene is certainly a fascinating one, and one
that I feel really hasn't been told in-depth before. What was your original premise
behind making 'Until The Light Takes Us'?
Aaron Aites - Well
we wanted to tell the story, and we wanted to go in-depth. But what we wanted
to do was have the people who were there, involved and did all that stuff to tell
the story themselves. They should be the people who are telling the story. There
have been some treatments out there where some people have simply propped them
up and given the story some brief video treatment, without speaking to the people
who were actually there at the time, or those who were completely removed from
doing the things that actually happened at the time. So that was really our one
and only goals. We wanted to get to the people who did it, and who were as part
of it. And that's one thing I'm very proud of. If you watch the film, then you'll
see Varg Vikernes (Count Grishnackh of Burzum and Mayhem) and Gylve Nagell (Fenriz
of Darkthrone) come across on the screen exactly how they are in real life. I
wanted to tell the story from the inside out so to speak.
I
get the impression that putting together a film like this wouldn't have been an
easy task? Trying to get these people on film and speak openly must have been
a bit of a challenge. How much resistance did you come across from those involved?
Aaron
Aites - Everybody involved was different. Vikernes was very resistant to the idea
at the start. From the beginning when we initially started thinking about doing
this film, we knew it had to have Vikernes and Nagell involved. If we couldn't
get the pair of them involved, we knew that we might as well not do the film.
So how long did it take for us to get them onboard?
Audrey
Ewell - It took us eight months of going back and forth by way of writing letters
and corresponding with the pair of them. We were constantly explaining what the
film was about, what we were trying to achievement with the film and letting them
know just how important it was that they both be involved in it and tell the story
from their own perspectives. And even after all that time, Vikernes just kept
sending us back these letters essentially saying, 'Even if you were making exactly
the kind of film that I could help you make, I still wouldn't be in your movie'.
So it was a really hard film to make, and very hard to get Vikernes to even hear
us out. It was essential to get the pair involved telling the story, and we let
them know that we weren't prepared to tell the story if we couldn't get their
participation. In the end, Vikernes finally agreed to meet with us, and he felt
that maybe he had mistaken our intents. It was only after speaking to us face
to face that he understood that we really were there for the right reasons. It
was only during that meeting that he finally agreed to participate. I actually
thought that he was very open. There were certain things that he couldn't say
for legal reasons, but other than that, he was very forthcoming. Once he was onboard,
and we were filming, there was never a case where we found him saying, 'I don't
want to answer that question'.
Aaron Aites - Once Vikernes
decided to do it, he really jumped in head first. He was very engaged, and I think
it comes through in the film.
Audrey Ewell - Vikernes' was
very reserved. Even though he agreed to do the film, he has a lot of reserve to
him. Once he's engaged with you on a personal level, he's a very open person.
But it took a long time for us to reach him on that personal level. But once we
did, you can see just how much he's willing to reveal, and talk about the events,
and how much those particular events of the past have affected him on a personal
level. They really did have had an emotional impact on his life. Getting him on
film was a huge thing for us, and you can see the honesty he brings to the film.
Were
there any participants you wanted involved but weren't able to get on film?
Audrey
Ewell - There was one, and that was only because his family was unaware of his
criminal past. We really didn't want to dig that up! (Laughs)
Aaron
Aites - In the end, he was unimportant. We really wanted to have Vikernes and
Nagell involved in the film as they're the true central characters to the story.
And that's what we got. There were some characters that we had to cut out of the
film. We did some stuff with Enslaved, and a whole lot of other people. But in
the end, you have ninety minutes to tell a story, and there are only so many characters
you can introduce before it starts to become something else. So even with all
the people we did interview, we couldn't even use all the footage we had taken.
In the end, it wasn't really a problem not getting some people involved. In the
end, there was every chance that the person Ewell was talking about may not have
made the final cut of the film, especially given the kind of footage that did
make the final cut of the film.
Were there any scenes that
you filmed that you really wanted to see in the film, but had to cut in order
to make the film a neat ninety minutes?
Audrey Ewell - Yes.
There was a scene where we were filming the guys from Immortal, and they were
telling us about the time they used to put on their warpaint, or as everyone else
would call it, corpsepaint, and how they would go for walks in the woods. The
experiences they told us about were something quite interesting! (Laughs)
Aaron
Aites - The original cut of the film was four hours long! (Laughs) But we're very
happy with the cut of the film we have now. Some of the last things that we cut
included the beginning of the film, which was originally actually longer than
it is now. That was one of the last things that we cut. But now, I'm very happy
that we did it. It turned out to be a good idea. It's hard balancing out the editing,
because one of the biggest goals is making sure these characters come across as
honest as they are in real life. And it's amazingly easy how a simple theme placement
can change everything. It's as simple as placing one person's statement after
another person's. It can completely change the vibe of what they're like. So it's
a challenge balancing that so that everything felt natural, and that the guys
in the film felt they were represented in a way that people can get a feel for
what they're really like. It was a hard process, but nothing in the final cut
of the film leaves me feeling like I wish we had done something different. In
terms of the leftover footage, there are lots of crazy scenes that don't really
fit into the plot of the film. They're interesting, and there's some really good
stuff there that we like, but we didn't end up using it. At the end of the day,
they simply didn't fit into our vision of what we felt the film was trying to
achieve.
'Until The Light Takes Us' is told by those involved
in pretty much their own words, and the end result is something very much open
for interpretation in terms of how to view the events that unfolded. What do you
personally want people to take away from the film?
Audrey Ewell
- The film that I'm interested in has the primary aim of prompting thought in
the audience about what they've just seen, allow them to process that, and come
to conclusions of their own. It's very intentionally left a little bit oblique.
I wouldn't say it's that open to interpretation in a moveable sense, or in the
way some people think. I think it's clear that murder is bad, and all that sort
of thing. So I don't think the moral side of the story is something left to interpretation.
I think what it does is give a deeper meaning to how facts come to be facts, how
reality is defined, and by which things eventually become true. And I guess in
a lot of ways, that's what this film is about. There's just so many different
ways to put a film together with that much information. You can do so much with
the juxtaposition of themes. If people are talking about leaving the film open
to interpretation, then certainly it is, and that was a goal to some extent. But
I can tell you just how much perspective you can put into a film by remaining
true to a central theme. It can change the way a person can come across by the
end of the film if you don't.
Aaron Aites - For me, one of
the things that I hope people get out of this film is an understanding as to where
these people started out with a set of ideals and ideas, and how the media then
redefined it. We then go about showing how artists are once again redefining what
they think black metal is. I don't know if you noticed, but in the first scene
of the film, Ewell and I are there setting up the shot with Nagell, and it's there
that you get this sense that you're going to get another moderated version of
what is true. One of things that I want people to think about are the process
by which people define things, how things come to be known as fact, and defining
just what is truth? If fifty million people believe in one thing, and you don't
believe that, then what is true, and what is false?
What would
you say to those who might be interested in the film, but have yet to see it?
Audrey
Ewell - We do enough these days! That's why we have a marketing department! (Laughs)
Aaron
Aites - I wouldn't necessarily try to convince people to see the film! (Laughs)
But if I thought it would be something that they would be interested in, and were
interested in abstract art/experimental films, there might well be something in
this for you. But if you're into this genre of music, then there's definitely
something in this for you. But people who aren't into this music can also get
something out of this film. It's designed in a way that you can go into the film
without knowing a lot of the history, and still appreciate the story it's trying
to tell. I think the film is really good for those who are into black metal, and
who know everything, and also to those who come into it without any knowledge
of the scene and its story.
I would like to thank Aaron
Aites and Audrey Ewell for their generous time and Mishell Vreman at Shock Entertainment
for making the interview possible.
For more information
on 'Until The Light Takes Us', check out - http://www.myspace.com/blackmetalmovie
©
Justin Donnelly - justindonnelly@ozemail.com.au
